Curse

Winstar · Jul 04, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

somthing to mess with the souls barbs spike?

Amity and Truth · Jul 04, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Skillbalances and nerfs are not only there to keep all the skills balanced. They're sometimes also made to get the metagame going again. If the whole PVP Aspect is severely stuck due to one or two builds, some nerfs and rebalances will happen.
As they did with Dual Smiting, Spiritspamming, Healing Ball, Air Spike, Iway etc. You still see some of these builds in one way or another but most of them disappeared for a good reason, they made the game boring. And don't flame me because i included Iway in that list. It's just a fricking FOTM just like every other and it was nerfed.
Yes there was a time where every team was Iway, but guess what? Those are over. I hardly ever see an Iway Team anymore.

Aside from this point of view:
AoE will probably NOT be nerfed. It's still a young skill.

Blinding Flash should NOT be nerfed. Warriors simply have insane damage output and thus, counters should be manifold and easy. If you make blinding fash useless, you'll have to weaken warriors a great deal.

Boon of Creation will be nerfed. Enough people are complaining about Ritualists having a purpose in the game. And they will get their support. The problem with Boon of Creation is that this single skill is insanely powerful and the engine of a Spiritspammer. Remember what happened to all those powerful Engines? Ether Renewal (that one was whack...) ? Offering of Blood? Energy Drain?
Plus, with Boon you can actually get more energy back than you've used in the first place. Cast a 5 Energy spirit and you'll be getting a free +3 Energy. Kind of makes the Energy Signet to steal energy from your spirits worthless and useless.

CHUIU · Jul 04, 2006, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

I Just remembered something else that I tink needs to be changed. I Think Riposte and Deadly Riposte need to be moved to the Swordsmanship line. It's a really bad idea to have it use a single weapon (when the warrior has a choice from 3) but not have it linked at all to that weapon's attribute. If there's something preventing that, like causing there to be moer sword skills than axe or hammer ones, then remove the sword requirement from it.
The problem with it isn't so much imbalance, but that it's completely illogical.

They aren't attacks though, they belong in tactics.

lyra_song · Jul 04, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

I Just remembered something else that I tink needs to be changed. I Think Riposte and Deadly Riposte need to be moved to the Swordsmanship line. It's a really bad idea to have it use a single weapon (when the warrior has a choice from 3) but not have it linked at all to that weapon's attribute. If there's something preventing that, like causing there to be moer sword skills than axe or hammer ones, then remove the sword requirement from it.
The problem with it isn't so much imbalance, but that it's completely illogical.

dwarven battle stance is in strenght but its a hammer stance ;P

I think riposte/deadly riposte are fine for PvE. They need a buff into something actually useful. It uses the sword, but its really more of a stance.

Ira Blinks · Jul 04, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

...and this is all because warriors need to own pvp even more than they do now...

makosi · Jul 04, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

...and this is all because warriors need to own pvp even more than they do now...

/agree

Why not remove everything else from the game and call it Warrior Wars?

Game update 06/07/2006

Removed the following:

Mesmers
Necromancers
Elementalists*
Rangers
Assassins
Ritualists
Monks

*Moved 'Shock' to Warrior attribute: Strength. /endsarcasm

Ffs people, warrior skills need adjusted in the other direction.

Especially Irresistible Blow. You are a ranger facing a hammer warrior/thumper and are taking a beating so you use Whirling Defense. They use Iressistible Blow and you're on the ground. That totally defeats the point of a defensive stance so I'd say lengthen the recharge time or buff ranger stances by reducing recharge times. Guild Wars is ridiculously warrior-orientated right now.

Rikimaru · Jul 04, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I Don't believe Warriors are as strong as they are because of their skills. Use warrior skills with any other primary and they're well beyond underwhelming. The problem is probably that they have innate armor piercing for damage, and 100+ AL +5 reduction for defense.
The tradeoff is supposed to be that they have really weak energy. But because of their adrenaline skills and signets, it's easily possible (and common) to have a warrior that doesn't even use energy, or atleast almost none.
So you have a character that, before even using any skills at all, has un-opposed defense, and afterwards has offense that is only closely rivaled by Assassins.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Jul 04, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

/agree

Why not remove everything else from the game and call it Warrior Wars?

Game update 06/07/2006

Removed the following:

Mesmers
Necromancers
Elementalists*
Rangers
Assassins
Ritualists
Monks

*Moved 'Shock' to Warrior attribute: Strength. /endsarcasm

Ffs people, warrior skills need adjusted in the other direction.

Especially Irresistible Blow. You are a ranger facing a hammer warrior/thumper and are taking a beating so you use Whirling Defense. They use Iressistible Blow and you're on the ground. That totally defeats the point of a defensive stance so I'd say lengthen the recharge time or buff ranger stances by reducing recharge times. Guild Wars is ridiculously warrior-orientated right now.

meh... I'm still wondering why you aren't complaining that wild blow isn't elite since it makes your trusty stance go poof..., just hex the person, throw a clumsiness1 faintheartedness on him and enjoy interrupting his attacks, heck blind him and see him swinging into oblivion.

rangers are already one of the most powerfull other chars... and basis of a lot of the fotms... (ranger spike, iway (pets, tigers fury,...), vampiric rangers) so you really don't have to complain.

the only ones that might complain are the ritualists and eles... as well as on occasion the assasin and the mesmer.

edit: and wow get a ward of stability going and see that shock be useless... not forgetting that its elite, has a high recharge and 2 very high disadvantages. It really is only decent as a gimmick build.

JR · Jul 04, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

I agree with the majority, apart from Prot Strike, which I think is easily strong enough as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

...and this is all because warriors need to own pvp even more than they do now...

I'm sorry, but that is just straight up idiotic. Buffing bad skills that Warriors currently don't use to a point where they MIGHT take them over something else is not making them "own pvp even more". It is actually called correctly balancing the game. Just because the OP decided to focus his post on Warriors does not mean that is the only class he feels that has skills that needs buffing. Unlike a lot of people, including yourself, he merely decided to post only about things he knew about.

lyra_song · Jul 05, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Especially Irresistible Blow. You are a ranger facing a hammer warrior/thumper and are taking a beating so you use Whirling Defense. They use Iressistible Blow and you're on the ground. That totally defeats the point of a defensive stance so I'd say lengthen the recharge time or buff ranger stances by reducing recharge times. Guild Wars is ridiculously warrior-orientated right now.

Well let me say as as ive run both a W/Mo KD/HS and a Bunny Thumper, you coudlnt be more wrong.

Irres IS an anti-stance. Thats the point. If it pisses you off, blind the warrior or ranger. And theres quite a few blinding skills.

A warrior spamming Irres is gonna run of out of energy, so he wont have energy for sprint, energy for crushing blow or for the after KD combo (Aftershock or Holy Strike).

A bunny thumper meanwhile is designed to spam it continously because theres very few hammer attacks for a ranger that doesnt use adrenaline (and also doubles as an anti stance)

Proper kiting helps negates the damage of a hammer user and prevents adrenaline buildup. I know this because its been used on me a lot and it works.

and since were on the subject of hammers, i really do want a slight buff on Dwarven Battle Stance. its one of my favorite but lease useful stances.

Ira Blinks · Jul 05, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I agree with the majority, apart from Prot Strike, which I think is easily strong enough as it is.

I'm sorry, but that is just straight up idiotic. Buffing bad skills that Warriors currently don't use to a point where they MIGHT take them over something else is not making them "own pvp even more". It is actually called correctly balancing the game. Just because the OP decided to focus his post on Warriors does not mean that is the only class he feels that has skills that needs buffing. Unlike a lot of people, including yourself, he merely decided to post only about things he knew about.

You wanna know really is what straight up idiotic?
It's that Warrior is the only class that rocked pretty much eveything ever since I started playing GW. Warrior is the only class that didn't have any nerfs on my memory. Warrior is the most self sufficient and brainless class in the game. Warrior has the best armor and the best single target damage. Warrior is counter to everything. Warrior even has best looking armors and weapons in game and widest variety. Warrior is pretty much designed for i-pwn-joo-noob kids who have no brain or guts to play fair game.
And don't you tell me about warrior hate and team efforts to stop them. If a single warrior requires so much hate and teamwork to stop him, that DOES mean he needs a huge nerf.

And what is REALLY straight up idiotic is posts like yours calling me idiot for showing you your place. So how about no? How about warrior needs no buffing at all? How about a nice juicy nerf on recharge times and armor penetration across the board for a change?
But oh noes! That could actually make warriors balanced!

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 05, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

You wanna know really is what straight up idiotic?
It's that Warrior is the only class that rocked pretty much eveything ever since I started playing GW. Warrior is the only class that didn't have any nerfs on my memory. Warrior is the most self sufficient and brainless class in the game. Warrior has the best armor and the best single target damage. Warrior is counter to everything. Warrior even has best looking armors and weapons in game and widest variety. Warrior is pretty much designed for i-pwn-joo-noob kids who have no brain or guts to play fair game.
And don't you tell me about warrior hate and team efforts to stop them. If a single warrior requires so much hate and teamwork to stop him, that DOES mean he needs a huge nerf.

And what is REALLY straight up idiotic is posts like yours calling me idiot for showing you your place. So how about no? How about warrior needs no buffing at all? How about a nice juicy nerf on recharge times and armor penetration across the board for a change?
But oh noes! That could actually make warriors balanced!

/endsarcasm.

BigTru · Jul 05, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

You wanna know really is what straight up idiotic?
It's that Warrior is the only class that rocked pretty much eveything ever since I started playing GW. Warrior is the only class that didn't have any nerfs on my memory. Warrior is the most self sufficient and brainless class in the game. Warrior has the best armor and the best single target damage. Warrior is counter to everything. Warrior even has best looking armors and weapons in game and widest variety. Warrior is pretty much designed for i-pwn-joo-noob kids who have no brain or guts to play fair game.
And don't you tell me about warrior hate and team efforts to stop them. If a single warrior requires so much hate and teamwork to stop him, that DOES mean he needs a huge nerf.

And what is REALLY straight up idiotic is posts like yours calling me idiot for showing you your place. So how about no? How about warrior needs no buffing at all? How about a nice juicy nerf on recharge times and armor penetration across the board for a change?
But oh noes! That could actually make warriors balanced!

...Please tell me you were being sarcastic... That has got to be THE most moronic post in this whole thread.

On topic, I agree with most of the suggestions, though I don't think Sun and Moon or Protector's Strike really need a buff. I really like the Ripostes in the Tactics line, too. It encourages massive farm-err... it encourages cross attribute builds

yesitsrob · Jul 05, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Prot strike definitely doesn't need a buff.

And to play a warrior well it is far from brainless.

The thing that makes up for warriors being so powerful (which they are) is the amount of warrior hate at your disposal. Just take a look at balanced builds today, a signficiant amount of the skills that are involved in them is to counter the warrior hate (drains for aegis, draw for blind/cripple, snares to prevent kiting), and a lot of everything else is so that your team can deal with enemy warriors (blackouts to reset adrenaline, wards, blurred vision, snares, etc... ). The fact is with the exception of some gimmick builds, warriors have always meant to be the source of damage in a build, simply proven by them being so powerful and the large number of skills designed to work against them

Ira Blinks · Jul 05, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Prot strike definitely doesn't need a buff.

And to play a warrior well it is far from brainless.

The thing that makes up for warriors being so powerful (which they are) is the amount of warrior hate at your disposal. Just take a look at balanced builds today, a signficiant amount of the skills that are involved in them is to counter the warrior hate (drains for aegis, draw for blind/cripple, snares to prevent kiting), and a lot of everything else is so that your team can deal with enemy warriors (blackouts to reset adrenaline, wards, blurred vision, snares, etc... ). The fact is with the exception of some gimmick builds, warriors have always meant to be the source of damage in a build, simply proven by them being so powerful and the large number of skills designed to work against them

compare how much elementalist hate exists in GW and how much of it used in PvP... And then ask yourself why.

frojack · Jul 05, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Um.... Hahaha. Warrior rights huh? I agree, some skills could use some reworking. Shield Bash could definitely be more interesting. However I do kinda' think anet need to really start thinking about painting the rest of the yard.

I hope the eles are finally allowed near the fire, instead of being left out in the cold to shiver and die (Come on. Re-wording a few skills? You serious?)

"I was cold, I was hungry, were you there, were you there. I was cold, I was hungry, were you there..."

BigTru · Jul 05, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Warrior is the most self sufficient and brainless class in the game.

People say it's easy to be a warrior, I say it's even easier to be a crappy warrior. More often than not, if you truely think it's a thoughtless job, you either didn't play the job too long or didn't play the job too good.

Quote:

Warrior has the best armor and the best single target damage.

No arguement there.

Quote:

Warrior is counter to everything.

Pressure is the counter to everything, not warriors. If a warrior cannot pressure a blind-bot, he is not pressuring it, therefor he isn't countering it.

Quote:

Warrior even has best looking armors and weapons in game and widest variety.

What does that have to do with a skill balancing discussion?

Quote:

Warrior is pretty much designed for i-pwn-joo-noob kids who have no brain or guts to play fair game.

I'll leave thatup to the readers to interpret...

Quote:

And don't you tell me about warrior hate and team efforts to stop them. If a single warrior requires so much hate and teamwork to stop him, that DOES mean he needs a huge nerf.

Either that or other professions need a buff???

Quote:

How about warrior needs no buffing at all? How about a nice juicy nerf on recharge times and armor penetration across the board for a change?
But oh noes! That could actually make warriors balanced!

Boy are we lucky you aren't a developer! We'd have a pretty crappy game. Ok, let's imagine that for a minute Warriors did not exist. This game would degrade to 1 of 4 builds: Degan Builds, Gimmic Builds, Spike Builds, annd Gimmic Spike builds.

Let's say someone wanted to run a "Balanced" build, complete with all casters. They go up against a similiar build.

Rhetorical question: How long would a GvG match take with Elementalists as primary damage dealers (Not spiking)?

Do you see where I'm going at? A monk with a shread of decentcy can heal for ages against Non-gimmic, Non-spike, Non-degan "balanced" caster builds. Every match would become a VoD match. Everyone would be calling for a nerf to Marksmanship and Dagger Mastery.

Untill they make casters realistic damage dealers, this game needs Warriors as the primary damage dealers. Nerf to warriors = games taking just that much longer.

But how could they make Casters realistic damage dealers without making them even better spikers?

You got me there. I don't even know. The problem is so deep, it'd takeages to change (I'm praying that they've been working on something. For one, they'd have to take off the ridiculous aftercast on spells. Change 80 percent of Elementalist skills so they don't have a retarded recharge/cast time/unneccessary Exhaustion. Possibly rework Energy Storage.

Summary: Don't nerf warriors. Buff casters. Nerfing warriors would only promote gimmic/spike builds, make matches slower, and have everyone yelling for a Ranger (a RANGED attacker) and an Assassin nerf.

Symbol · Jul 05, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

There is absolutely nothing wrong with warriors as a class. They're a well balanced, well designed profession, which offers players lots of viable routes to building an effective character.

Warriors are not overpowered. The reason they're played so much in PvP is a direct consequence of the insane energy efficiency of monks. When monk heals have, at a minimum, twice the efficiency of any direct damage spell in the game, you're forced into playing a warrior to compensate by default.

You want to see less warriors? Either reduce the effectiveness of monk heals, or buff the energy efficiency of offensive casters. The elementalist in particular needs a lot of attention.

inscribed · Jul 05, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

The elementalist in particular needs a lot of attention.

quoted for the mother f'ing truth.

TadaceAce · Jul 05, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctarl

Don't let the poor necros (literarily) bleed for excesses of other professions!

No "cross-class nerfs" please >.<

Any necro usnig vamp bite and vamp touch suck already so go ahead and nerf them more ><